Curse

Hells Vengeance · Dec 26, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Easy solution to Orbberius whining... Don't do RPG or buy a house and the rest of us who wants to have a house or like to RPG can, so just shut up about it.

Symeon · Dec 26, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Orberrius, I've noticed you've built a reputation for arguing in one or two other threads. Sure, it's good to argue, for arguing in some ways means the same as discussing/debating. But your way of arguing is not one that goes well.

Lampshade · Dec 27, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05

They dont need homes. They need Holmes
The best detective in Tyria!

Victory Gaint · Dec 27, 2005, 03:10 AM // 03:10

I call it..."The Guild Hall". I dont know if u ever heard of it but it really is a nice place to live your lifeless days partying and drinking and playing tag

d(.:O_O:.)b

Banin Galori · Dec 27, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

look, if you dont like something....
*shocked expresion* you know you just.....
DONT USE IT!!!

i dont use PvP, but should i whine and cry about having it removed? No.
i leave it the frell alone, and let those that enjoy it have it to themselves.

simplest answer is to make homes part of an add on thats rpg fan based.
nothing in it that pvp or action only players will miss.
stuff like player run craftin, taverns, fishing ect.

if you dont want it, ou just dont buy the add on.
and those that dont want a gambling house, a fight pit (that much whined for 1v1) and apmitheater to watch said battles in, well they just dont buy the PvP baised one.

Sadly, that's not the way it works. Guild Wars was designed and meant to be a competitive RPG. Competitive means you fight. RPG means you play as a character you design, i.e. you're playing the "role" of your character. Whether you like it or not, the game is much more heavily focused on the competitive part - hence, all the championships, tournaments, etc.

Your idea of a separate RPG add-on is a nice one, but one that would not work. Unfortunately, it costs developers money and time to add new content. It's simply not in their best interests to meaninglessly diversify the essence of a game in order to please some people. You don't see Blizzard releasing an expansion pack for Starcraft or Warcraft III that lets you go into first-person mode and shoot your enemies in FPS style. Nor do you see expansion packs for Diablo II or other online action RPGs that let you role-play through crafting, taverns, or fishing. It is simply not the goal of Guild Wars to provide a deep role-playing experience. If you're looking for that, a traditional MMORPG is what you're looking for, not Guild Wars. Rather, Guild Wars is about fighting and beating your opponent, whether AI or human, using skill. It is not about role-playing, and going to lengths to provide a role-playing background, while nice, would be missing the point of the game and a waste of money.

Of course, I often wish that Guild Wars could provide more of a role-play basis. I know, however, that the game is not meant for that, and I have no wish of seeing it implemented at the expense of focus and quality in the existing areas.

Orbberius · Dec 27, 2005, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banin Galori

Your idea of a separate RPG add-on is a nice one, but one that would not work. Unfortunately, it costs developers money and time to add new content. It's simply not in their best interests to meaninglessly diversify the essence of a game in order to please some people. You don't see Blizzard releasing an expansion pack for Starcraft or Warcraft III that lets you go into first-person mode and shoot your enemies in FPS style. Nor do you see expansion packs for Diablo II or other online action RPGs that let you role-play through crafting, taverns, or fishing. It is simply not the goal of Guild Wars to provide a deep role-playing experience. If you're looking for that, a traditional MMORPG is what you're looking for, not Guild Wars. Rather, Guild Wars is about fighting and beating your opponent, whether AI or human, using skill. It is not about role-playing, and going to lengths to provide a role-playing background, while nice, would be missing the point of the game and a waste of money.

Of course, I often wish that Guild Wars could provide more of a role-play basis. I know, however, that the game is not meant for that, and I have no wish of seeing it implemented at the expense of focus and quality in the existing areas.

Thank you. Finally, someone with some sense.

Orbberius · Dec 27, 2005, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

that is your fault not Anets.

you played the part of the game you wanted to and completely ignored the rest.

since my friends and i only played pvp it has to be a pvp game.

guess what?

there is a heavy pve content which is only going to be heavier in chapter 2

Oh Guild Wars still is heavily PvP-oriented, otherwise I would not be playing. This game has also been marketed as a competitive online RPG, so if Anet were at some point to steer away from that, then yes it would be their fault. I am gladdened by the addition of things like Observer Mode and the $100,000 championship price, so I still believe this game is a heavily PvP-oriented one. I mean, if you haven't noticed, this game is called Guild Wars.

Hells Vengeance · Dec 27, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

The title Guild Wars doesn't have anything to do with more PvP. It just means Guilds have wars. FYI they've added more PvE updates than PvP...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banin Galori
Sadly, that's not the way it works. Guild Wars was designed and meant to be a competitive RPG. Competitive means you fight. RPG means you play as a character you design, i.e. you're playing the "role" of your character. Whether you like it or not, the game is much more heavily focused on the competitive part - hence, all the championships, tournaments, etc.

Your idea of a separate RPG add-on is a nice one, but one that would not work. Unfortunately, it costs developers money and time to add new content. It's simply not in their best interests to meaninglessly diversify the essence of a game in order to please some people. You don't see Blizzard releasing an expansion pack for Starcraft or Warcraft III that lets you go into first-person mode and shoot your enemies in FPS style. Nor do you see expansion packs for Diablo II or other online action RPGs that let you role-play through crafting, taverns, or fishing. It is simply not the goal of Guild Wars to provide a deep role-playing experience. If you're looking for that, a traditional MMORPG is what you're looking for, not Guild Wars. Rather, Guild Wars is about fighting and beating your opponent, whether AI or human, using skill. It is not about role-playing, and going to lengths to provide a role-playing background, while nice, would be missing the point of the game and a waste of money.

Of course, I often wish that Guild Wars could provide more of a role-play basis. I know, however, that the game is not meant for that, and I have no wish of seeing it implemented at the expense of focus and quality in the existing areas.

Sadly, that isn't true. Exaggerating how much it would cost them to put in fishing. They added Holloween and Wintersday events only for a week, and I think its more complex than adding fishing, and if it cost them so much money, why did they put it in for a week?

Orbberius · Dec 27, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Next you're going to tell me that having guilds in the game has nothing to do with PvP.

Loviatar · Dec 27, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbberius

I mean, if you haven't noticed, this game is called Guild Wars.

just a fun tidbit of information.

if you caught it in passing there is a reference in a cut scene and lore information which states it was the *GUILD WARS* which caused so much damage that the char were able to get the upper hand.

now you have small guild skermishes in arenas instead of the super strong guilds which warred before.

just some info

Victory Gaint · Dec 29, 2005, 04:01 AM // 04:01

lol and the next post to this will be making families....( GW BABY MAKING!?!?)
w/mo+r/me=me/w?-mo/r?

Banin Galori · Dec 29, 2005, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hells Vengeance

Sadly, that isn't true. Exaggerating how much it would cost them to put in fishing. They added Holloween and Wintersday events only for a week, and I think its more complex than adding fishing, and if it cost them so much money, why did they put it in for a week?

You're missing the point. I'm not just talking about fishing, I'm talking about the whole idea of expanding the game to do stuff it wasn't meant to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victory Gaint

lol and the next post to this will be making families....( GW BABY MAKING!?!?)
w/mo+r/me=me/w?-mo/r?

We should definitely have that! If the people in Ascalon had more babies, they could overwhelm the Charr with sheer numbers! Especially since the people right now have a nasty habit of not staying dead. =D

draugr · Dec 29, 2005, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbberius

Would I be happy if I found out the developers are wasting precious time on completely useless things like homes and fishing instead of adding new PvP content? HELL NO.

QFT. Its a pvp game. Now if your house could be torn down by other players, we might be on to something...

burai · Dec 29, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banin Galori

Unfortunately, it costs developers money and time to add new content. It's simply not in their best interests to meaninglessly diversify the essence of a game in order to please some people.

If it pleases enough people to make Anet more money, I'm sure they would consider it.

And can we please stop referring to GW as a PvP game. I play GW, but I do not PvP.

It has both PvP and PvE content - two different styles of play wrapped up in one game.

Symeon · Dec 29, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banin Galori

You're missing the point. I'm not just talking about fishing, I'm talking about the whole idea of expanding the game to do stuff it wasn't meant to do.

How can you say a game isn't meant to do something???
Ok, so houses and fishing and free-roaming and that kind of stuff is MMORPG stuff. So...what's the matter? As long as we don't have to pay, it would be great if Guild Wars turned more like an MMORPG. And to Orrberius, you seem to be saying that making Guild Wars more MMORPG like would lose its 'PVP orientation'. Well, firstly Guild Wars is half PvE half PvP. Second, if you made the PvE part more like an MMORPG with homes, fishing and stuff, that wouldn't have to affect PvP at all. Perhaps then PvP could be 'bolstered', to make up for just great expansion of the PvE aspect.

Eldin · Dec 29, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

GW does seem to be somewhat lacking in small interior areas...I agree with Symeon on what ANet can do.

Rayea · Dec 29, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

exactly...

chapter 2 (containing more maps for pve...more classes for both...more armour/skills/weps for both...a few new map arenas, a couple of newer guild halls, the usual sprinkling of quests and colectables ect)

RPG' r Us...the rpg peoples add on...(with small homes, decoratives for guild halls, crafting of wepons/shields and holdables/ clothing for in towns *has no armour rating*...adds taverns...adds fishing and other resource gathering (also good for falmers) ability to marry in game, with ceremony and rings (purely cosmetic) ton of rp based emotes, like /sing and /soliloqy and so on...)

and the PvP FtW add on...(containg pvp only arenas *alowing pvp players to play against only pvp-only chars* loads of pvp based emotes like /wins(ascalon) *alows players wins in ascalon areana to be displayed*
adds the mini-hall amd mini-guild option to the game, so that small guilds can be set up simply to practace with...coupled with the umbrella/Treaty polacy, alows for guilds to have sub-guilds that are conected thru Treaty to larger guilds *use of this will mean that guild members who become temporarily inactive can be moved to a sub-guild for the time of their inactivity without kicking them from guild. they can later be swapped back into main guild once they are active again.*

see, its not just about whether it costs money to implement these ideas....it costs the company simply to pay the workers wages, so are you gona say that the company will just tell everyone to go work on something new like *generic crap game like crazy frog racer that everyone seems to buy* and make them some cash?

they are thinking about stuff all the time, just like us.
the main chapter, yeah, everyone that wants to will buy it. but drop 2 seperate add-ins on us and see how much extra cash they can rake in, just by adding stuff that might be possible already. decorations for guild halls? easy, they thave decorated towns for halloween and wintersday, what more do they need, script wise?

oh, and its easy to have kids in a game like this...you just tell everyone that you *are* the kid of X player and Y player ^^

hidden_agenda · Dec 30, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

I totally agree with the view that Rayea presented. The game is a hybrid between PvE and PvP and that's part of its charm. People should treat that as a feature instead of a bug -- it's part of the game's design philosophy.

Meanwhile, return to the OP: I totally agree that the game should have more RPG elements such as homes. I disagree that it's hard to do -- after all, a fix number of home styles is no more difficult to do than a fix number of guild hall styles. I also believe that it's a great area to expand the GW basics.

Incidentally, this is really the point of the "RPG" portion of CRPG. From Wikipedia:

In role-playing, participants adopt characters, or parts, that have personalities, motivations, and backgrounds different from their own. Role-playing is like being in an improvisational drama or free-form theatre, in which the participants are the actors who are playing parts.

I am not advocating we all speaking in roleplaying all the time, but having more storyline and more personalizable touches is a great way to expand the game and one that I am certain many people would be willing to pay for (just look at all the people that bought the SIX add-ons to Sims).

death fuzzy · Dec 30, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

this isnt runescape, get the f*** off this site

Banin Galori · Dec 30, 2005, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

How can you say a game isn't meant to do something???
Ok, so houses and fishing and free-roaming and that kind of stuff is MMORPG stuff. So...what's the matter? As long as we don't have to pay, it would be great if Guild Wars turned more like an MMORPG. And to Orrberius, you seem to be saying that making Guild Wars more MMORPG like would lose its 'PVP orientation'. Well, firstly Guild Wars is half PvE half PvP. Second, if you made the PvE part more like an MMORPG with homes, fishing and stuff, that wouldn't have to affect PvP at all. Perhaps then PvP could be 'bolstered', to make up for just great expansion of the PvE aspect.

That's the point. You will have to pay, whether in added prices, lowered quality, or both. If not, why not add real-time strategy aspects to the game too? Maybe put in some FPS action for the rangers? Put in some vehicles, and we can do some racing. Hell, put in some Ascalonian Tetris while you're at it. Point is, one game can't do everything. The more material you put in, the more money it costs to develop (and upkeep in an online game), and the higher the prices will have to go in order to keep the game profitable. Many people don't want to pay loads more money for content that they won't use. Arenanet focused on making a competitive online game for a reason: that's its selling point. Guild Wars was meant to be a competitive game where players fight, and win based on player skill. It was developed as such, and straying from the original goal is more often than not unwise. (Look at Star Wars Galaxies.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

RPG' r Us...the rpg peoples add on...(with small homes, decoratives for guild halls, crafting of wepons/shields and holdables/ clothing for in towns *has no armour rating*...adds taverns...adds fishing and other resource gathering (also good for falmers) ability to marry in game, with ceremony and rings (purely cosmetic) ton of rp based emotes, like /sing and /soliloqy and so on...)

and the PvP FtW add on...(containg pvp only arenas *alowing pvp players to play against only pvp-only chars* loads of pvp based emotes like /wins(ascalon) *alows players wins in ascalon areana to be displayed*
adds the mini-hall amd mini-guild option to the game, so that small guilds can be set up simply to practace with...coupled with the umbrella/Treaty polacy, alows for guilds to have sub-guilds that are conected thru Treaty to larger guilds *use of this will mean that guild members who become temporarily inactive can be moved to a sub-guild for the time of their inactivity without kicking them from guild. they can later be swapped back into main guild once they are active again.*

In essence, you're saying that they should spend twice the time and money to develop twice the content that they'll sell to the same group of people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

see, its not just about whether it costs money to implement these ideas....it costs the company simply to pay the workers wages, so are you gona say that the company will just tell everyone to go work on something new like *generic crap game like crazy frog racer that everyone seems to buy* and make them some cash?

If you put it that way, ANY game development is just a matter of playing worker's wages. Why don't you see games that let you do everything out there then?

You're forgetting a crucial element: TIME. It takes time to make stuff, no matter how much you pay your employees or how many times you whip them.

If you're going to add role-playing aspects to the game, you might as well add it along with the rest of the content. Competitive people aren't going to AVOID buying the new chapter because it contains RP material. If it also has significant competitive elements in it, the competitive people will still buy it. Rather, what many are concerned about is adding RP stuff AT THE EXPENSE of competitive developments. Arenanet isn't god. (...No, they aren't.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

The game is a hybrid between PvE and PvP and that's part of its charm. People should treat that as a feature instead of a bug -- it's part of the game's design philosophy.

Both PvE and PvP share the same trait: the "v." "Versus" implies fighting. Guild Wars is about fighting. The fact that you create your own custom character to do this fighting is really where all the "role play" in the game lies. Some people like to take it a step further, and actually get into their characters. Those who do, however, are the minority. Furthermore, those who role-play most likely aren't going to quit the game because there is no added role-play content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

I am not advocating we all speaking in roleplaying all the time, but having more storyline and more personalizable touches is a great way to expand the game and one that I am certain many people would be willing to pay for (just look at all the people that bought the SIX add-ons to Sims).

More storyline is already planned for the next chapter. More personalizable touches are nice, I agree. People like something that they can call their own, something that shows the time they invested into the game. Too much, however, will detract from the quality of the primary aspects of the game.

As for the Sims, yes, many people bought its 6 expansion packs. Its 6 expansion packs also kept within the same basic premises of the game: you get to control a virtual character's life. People bought the expansion packs for the Sims to play more of the same game they got in the Sims. They didn't expect an expansion pack that would be an FPS.